Recital ‘Q’ from the EDC asks us to consider the eternal nature of Paul’s regulations. Here is the next recital in full:
“Q. The apostle Paul presents his regulations for the office of elder / overseer (1 Tim 3:1–7 and Tit 1:5–9), and his associated instructions regarding teaching and authority (1 Tim 2:12), as universal and enduring regulations for the Church: in 1 Timothy the regulations come at the heart of an identifiable section of the letter which deals with universal and enduring realities (1 Tim 2:1–3:16): his instructions concern the “one God” (1 Tim 2:5), the “one mediator” (1 Tim 2:5), “all people” (1 Tim 2:1, 4, 6) and “every place” (1 Tim 2:8); they concern teaching grounded in creation and the Fall (1 Tim 2:13–15); they flow from Paul’s own appointment as apostle to “the nations” (1 Tim 2:7); Paul concludes the whole section by underlining the God-given necessity of these instructions for the Church—they prescribe “how one ought to behave in the household of God” (1 Tim 3:15); moreover, Paul introduces the regulations with the formula “the saying is trustworthy” (1 Tim 3:1a), which he otherwise reserves for summaries of the universal and enduring gospel (1 Tim 1:15; 4:8–10; 2 Tim 2:11–13; Tit 3:5–8); he circumscribes the list itself with two references to what “an overseer must be …,” twice underlining the God-given necessity of the entire list (1 Tim 3:2, 3:7); in Titus, similarly, Paul’s command to “appoint elders in every town” (Tit 1:5) is grounded in the eternal purpose of God “who never lies,” and flows from Paul’s own apostolic commission— “the command of God our Saviour … for the sake of the faith of God’s elect” (Tit 1:1–3); Paul again draws attention to the prescriptive nature of his command with the phrase “an overseer must be …” (1:7), and grounds this divine necessity in the eschatological mission of the church to stand for the truth amidst false teaching until “the appearing of the glory of our great God and Saviour Jesus Christ” (Tit 2:13; cf. 1:10–16; 2:1, 3–4, 7–8, 11–14);”
To clarify our context; there are two things to consider:
1 – What are Paul’s requirements concerning the gender of elders. This has been the subject of recitals O and P. The EDC conclude that Paul demands male only elders. I conclude the opposite.
2 – Whether the requirements are relevant today. This is the subject of recital ‘Q’.
The EDC suggest the precepts in 1 Timothy 2:12, 3:1-7 & Titus 1:5-9 are in a section of universal and enduring realities and claim this is evidence of the universal and enduring nature of the precepts. The EDC gives the following references:
1 Timothy 2:5 – Paul says, “This pleases God our Saviour, who wants all people to be saved and to come to a knowledge of the truth.” Paul continues, “For there is one God and one mediator between God and mankind, the man Christ Jesus.” The link Paul is making between one God, and one mediator relates to praying for all people to be saved. This is not evidence that Paul’s later instructions are universal or enduring.
1 Timothy 2:1, 4, 6 – These three verses refer to two desires and one fact respectively. In verse 1 Paul wants all people to be prayed for. Although there is a desire for universal prayer, this is not a universal reality. In verse 4 Paul wants all people to be saved. This is a desire, not a universal reality. Verse 6 says Jesus Christ is given as a ransom for all people. I agree with the fullness and eternal nature of the work of Christ, but Paul’s reference to all people in verse 6 does not determine whether Paul is speaking to a universal or local issue in 1 Timothy 2:12.
1 Timothy 2:8 – Paul wants men everywhere to pray and lift holy hands without anger or dispute. This is not something that Presbyterian men often do, but Paul desires to see it. This is a desire not a universal reality.
1 Timothy 2:13-15 – Paul references Adam being formed first. In Part Three we looked at ways of understanding Paul’s words here other than a created hierarchy. The Genesis text does not support a created hierarchy but rather the equal dominion given to the man and the woman over creation. The EDC suggest that things grounded in the fall can be universal and enduring which is contestable. In Christ we live redeemed lives that resist the outworkings of the fall (Galatians 3:13-14).
1 Timothy 2:7 – Paul’s appointment as an apostle is not universal and enduring in the sense that Paul is now dead. He is no longer preaching as he was, though the truth that he was to herald, Jesus Christ the Mediator, is enduring. This does not mean that the contested precepts are universal or enduring.
1 Timothy 3:15 – Paul clarifies that he writes these things so that Timothy might know how one ought to behave in the house of God. This does not mean that Paul is talking about a universal or enduring situation in 1 Timothy 2:12. Paul can speak to a specific or temporary situation in God’s house (e.g. 1 Corinthians 11:17-22).
1 Timothy 3:1a – Paul says, “This is a trustworthy saying” and the EDC reference where Paul uses this phrase with the following verses: 1 Tim 1:15; 4:8–10; 2 Tim 2:11–13; Tit 3:5–8. All these verses are specific in what the trustworthy saying is. None of the examples given by the EDC determine if the precepts in question are a trustworthy and enduring reality. 1 Timothy 3:1a refers to the trustworthy saying which we find in 1 Timothy 3:1b, “Whoever aspires to be an overseer desires a noble task.” The “whoever” means anyone. It is not gender specific.
1 Timothy 3:2, 3:7 – Paul tells us what an elder should be without specifying gender. Paul outlines the potential consequences of noncompliance saying, “He must also have a good reputation with outsiders, so that he will not fall into disgrace and into the devil’s trap.” This does not prove that 1 Tim 2:12 is universal and enduring.
Titus 1:5 – Paul reminds Titus to finish what Paul had started and appoint elders (not gender specific) in every town. Paul’s request of Titus is not an eternal reality. Titus is now dead. This verse does not stop us considering 1 Timothy 2:12-15 as a local and temporary situation from which we can still learn helpful truths.
Titus 1:1-3 – “Paul, a servant of God and an apostle of Jesus Christ to further the faith of God’s elect and their knowledge of the truth that leads to godliness— in the hope of eternal life, which God, who does not lie, promised before the beginning of time, and which now at his appointed season he has brought to light through the preaching entrusted to me by the command of God our Savior…” The mention of “eternal life” and Paul’s words that connect to this eternal reality do not support the idea that the precepts raised are eternal or suggest that 1 Timothy 2:12 is not a temporary/local situation.
(Titus?) 1:7 – As with the passage from 1 Timothy 3, Paul outlines what an elder should be, without specifying gender. This does not impact our understanding of the precepts as limited to male elders or insist that 1 Timothy 2:12 is enduring.
Titus 2:13 – The EDC says, “grounds this divine necessity in the eschatological mission of the church to stand for the truth amidst false teaching until “the appearing of the glory of our great God and Saviour Jesus Christ””. To understand what is being grounded the EDC point us to: Titus 1:10-16 that speaks of false teaching; 2:1 that encourages Titus to teach sound doctrine; 3-4 where women elders are told to teach what is good; 7-8 which encourages Titus to set a good example to the young; and 11-14 the grace of God has taught us to say no to ungodliness, etc.
It is important false teaching is appropriately dealt with but these verses do not limit the teaching to elders and they do not support the idea of 1 Timothy 2:12 being an eternal regulation.
It seems helpful to highlight some of my understanding of 1 Timothy 2:12-15 at this point as recital Q has been an attempt by the EDC to make 1 Timothy 2:12 an enduring and universal command. I offer the 6 following thoughts:
1 – Paul moves from speaking about plural men in 1 Timothy 2:8 and plural women in 1 Timothy 2:9-10 to a singular woman in 1 Timothy 2:11, 12 & 15. This might be a generic singular, but it is useful to ponder why Paul changes from plural to singular. We should be open to the possibility that Paul is addressing a singular woman who needs to stop teaching and start learning. We will return to this at point 4.
2 – As I noted previously in Part Three, “I am not permitting” is not a phrase that suggests a permanent command, but rather a temporary regulation.
3 – As discussed previously, 1 Timothy 2:13-14 and the reference to Adam being formed first and Eve second can be understood in ways other than a reference to a created hierarchy. As the Genesis account does not support the idea of a created hierarchy, it seems unlikely that Paul is grounding his regulation in one. The creation account simply states that Adam was created first. Anything more is assumed.
4 – Returning to the question of whether Paul’s use of the singular in verses 11-12 is generic we have a singular woman reference again in verses 14b & 15. It says, “…it was ‘the woman’ who was deceived and became a sinner, but ‘she’ will be saved through childbearing – if they continue…” Who is this singular woman? The answer is the last logical singular female referenced. At first glance this appears to be Eve (v.13), but Eve is dead and cannot continue in faith, etc. The only other singular female referenced in the letter to this point is the singular female of verses 11-12.
5 – With teachers, gender does not seem to be Paul’s concern. His concern is whether what they are teaching is true or false. Those who teach should be willing to listen and be corrected as appropriate (Acts 18:24-26, 1 Timothy 1:12-14).
6 –It seems to me that ‘authoritative teaching’ comes from one verse (1 Timothy 2:12) where we have two negative activities, false teaching and domineering. I cannot find a clear positive reference to ‘authoritative teaching’.
Once again, I am not arguing to persuade, I am trying to respond to the EDC’s claims while showing that there are other alternate biblical understandings. I would also like to highlight that there are many helpful and challenging ways of understanding 1 Timothy 2:11-15. I have only presented the one I find fits best though I was introduced to another understanding of it just the past week that I am still processing.
In Part Five, our final section, we will consider the way scripture presents male/female relationships.
Dear Dave, thanks for your time in putting up this website and trying to engage in respectful dialogue in public. I have to admit that I don’t share your view and the comments I make aren’t meant to be personal but I do make them for the sake of truth…
You seem to suggest that 1 Timothy 2:12-15’s change to the singular is worth noting – that perhaps he was speaking to a localised situation and they are not enduring instructions regarding all women. How do you explain 1 Tim 2:15b – if THEY continue in faith and love and holiness…? Would this not indicate all along that Paul is referring to women in general?
Hey Bryan, I guess there are things that we do not agree on, but I celebrate that there are many things we do agree on, not least the value of truth.
You ask a good question. Thanks for engaging.
To remind ourselves of the context for a moment. Paul has made it clear there are non-gender specific false teachers about. He has spoken about what he is not permitting, which suggests a temporary situation. He has also moved from plural women to singular. I remind us of these things because when we get to verse 15, we have these other things that we are holding.
In verse 15 Paul says ‘she’, the third person singular female. He then says ‘they’, third person plural but not gender specific. This exact word is used in two other places. One references men (soldiers) and the other women (widows). This could reference plural men, women or both. So, which is it?
First, I would suggest that for it to mean plural women as you suggest, the question needs to be asked why Paul has jumped from plural, to singular, and now back to plural again? I think it is unlikely that Paul has jumped back to references plural women again.
Second, not only has Paul jumped back into the plural, but he has done it mid thought. “but she will be saved if they…” This is even less likely to be a reference to plural women.
Third, ‘they’ can only logically refer to the singular woman and the singular man that are the subject of verse 12. This brings us back to our context or Paul’s, “I am not permitting” as a temporary situation. Paul in verse 15 makes it clear that depending on how things go with verses 11 and 12 (the woman submitting peacefully to learning and not teaching and domineering) there is hope. Indeed, the temporary ban could even be lifted for this couple.
To be clear, this is a difficult passage and verse 15 is probably one of the most difficult verses in the passage. My reading could be wrong – there is something happening in Ephesus that we can only guess at.
I hope this is helpful Bryan. Please feel free to push back on anything I say.